Apostille Number Two

Just received my Grandparents’ Apostilled and Certified Marriage paperwork in the mail.  Not their marriage certificate, but their marriage application and a certified form from Erie County, Pennsylvania, stating that the official records verify that they were married on the specified date.  It also shows their parents’ names.  Should be everything the Consulate needs.

There was also a note that they do not issue copies of the actual certificate.  I checked with others in the know and they all said I’m good to go.

So another step completed.

Looking at where I’m at as of today, I still need my Grandfather’s death certificate, Mother’s birth certificate, my parent’s marriage certificate, and my birth certificate.  All certified.  Then I’ll need an apostille on my Parent’s marriage certificate, Grandfather’s death certificate, and my birth certificate.  The last step I’m waiting for will be a translation of everything relating to the male side of the family.

And just to have it all done, I will also be getting a certified and apostilled copy of my Wife’s birth certificate, and a certified and apostilled copy of our marriage certificate.  I don’t think I’ll need these until we apply for my Wife’s dual-citizenship, which will be done after I’m recognized as an Italian citizen.

Next step?  I’m trying to put to bed my Grandfather’s paperwork, so the next step will be to get a certified copy of his death certificate from DuPage County, Illinois.  And since this happens to be the county in which I was born, I’ll also pick up a certified copy of my birth certificate at the same time.  Both can be obtained while I wait, for a total of $22.

So my 2-month goal will not quite be met but things should get easier now, since everything else for my dual-citizenship will be done through the State of Illinois, where I live.

Dual Italian Citizenship Through Your Grandfather

We now continue finding out what is needed to prove dual Italian citizenship. As mentioned two posts ago, there are basically five ways to qualify. Last post discussed what’s needed if your Father or Mother were born in Italy. Today we’ll go through the documentation you’ll need to give your Italian consulate if either your Father or Mother was born in the country in which you now live but your Grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of their birth. Remember, there are more rules, and I’ve discussed them in earlier posts.

And again, I’m assuming you’re in the United State.  If not, adjust the information accordingly.

Method Number 3

Your Father was born in the US, your paternal Grandfather was born in Italy, came to the US, was married (either in Italy or the US) at the time of your Father’s birth, your Grandfather did not renounce his Italian citizenship as of your Father’s birth, your Father was married at the time of your birth, and your Father did not renounce his Italian citizenship as of your birth. Whew!  Pretty complex, but all they’re trying to do is be sure that you are directly a descendant of an Italian citizen (and be sure that all children are born to a married husband and wife).  (I have no editorial comments about the rules.  Just reporting them as they are).

(By the way, this happens to be my situation.  My Grandfather was born in Italy back in 1888.  He came to the US when he was 16 years old.  In 1926, at the age of 37(!) he married a young, spry 22-year old woman.  He was still an Italian citizen at that time.  Then in 1927, my Father was born.  At this time, my Father was a US citizen because he was born here, and also technically an Italian citizen, because he was born to an Italian citizen Father.  In 1943, my Grandfather got naturalized and became a US citizen.  In 1949, my Father married.  And in 1956, I was born.  My Father never renounced his Italian citizenship.  So technically I was also born to an Italian citizen.  And since I was born in the US, to an American citizen, obviously I’m also a US citizen.  Well, technically both.  And that’s what I need to prove to the Italian Government).

Now you can see why the various documents are needed.  Birth certificate to prove your Grandfather was born in Italy, his marriage certificate to prove he was married at the time of your Father’s birth, your Father’s birth certificate to prove dates, your Father’s marriage certificate to prove you were born to a married Mother and Father, and your birth certificate, again, to prove dates.

Remember, also, that I will go through each document in detail in later blogs.  These lists are only summarized.  Some have various other requirements.

The actual documentation required for this Method Number 3 category is:

• Your paternal Grandfather’s birth certificate (from Italy)
• Your paternal Grandmother’s birth certificate
• Your paternal Grandparents’ marriage certificate
• Your paternal Grandfather’s certificate of naturalization
• Your Father’s birth certificate
• Your Mother’s birth certificate
• Your Parents’ marriage certificate
• Your birth certificate
• A letter stating you and all your ascendants have not renounced their Italian citizenship
• Death certificates relating to all Italian-born ascendants

And remember, if your Grandfather became a US citizen before your Father was born, you are not entitled to a dual Italian citizenship (unless you fit into another category).

Method Number 4

Your Mother was born in the US, your maternal Grandfather was born in Italy, came to the US, was married (either in Italy or the US) at the time of your Mother’s birth, your Grandfather did not renounce his Italian citizenship as of your Mother’s birth, your Mother was married at the time of your birth, your Mother did not renounce her Italian citizenship as of your birth, and you were born on or after January 1, 1948. (Whew, again!)

And the documentation required for this dual citizenship qualification Method Number 4 category is:

• Your maternal Grandfather’s birth certificate (from Italy)
• Your maternal Grandmother’s birth certificate
• Your maternal Grandparents’ marriage certificate
• Your maternal Grandfather’s certificate of naturalization
• Your Mother’s birth certificate
• Your Father’s birth certificate
• Your Parents’ marriage certificate
• Your birth certificate
• A letter stating you and all your ascendants have not renounced their Italian citizenship
• Death certificates relating to all Italian-born ascendants

Still one more category to cover, which I’ll do tomorrow.  This relates to dual citizenship through your Great-grandfather.

Dual Italian Citizenship Through Your Father or Mother

As I said, as time permits, I’ll keep giving information about the background and what’s needed to be recognized as a dual Italian citizen.

There’s lots of meat to all of this, so first, I’ll go through details of what you’ll need for each of the five ways of qualifying for dual citizenship. Then when that’s done, I’ll give some detailed information on obtaining each of the documents.

So let’s start with details of two of the five ways of qualifying.  (I gave the five ways in yesterday’s blog.)

Before even considering the process, I repeat, each country has different laws regarding dual citizenship, so you need to check with your particular country to see if you qualify at all.  In my case, I live in the United States, which does acknowledge dual Italian citizenship.  And so, most of my documentation will assume dual Italian-US citizenship.  Make the necessary changes to fit your situation.

Method Number 1

If your Father was born in Italy, came to the country in which you were born, without renouncing his Italian citizenship as of when you were born, and your country recognizes dual Italian citizenship, then in Italy’s eyes, you are an Italian citizen (from your birth!), but you need to prove it to the Italian Government.

In the above case, you will need the following to prove your citizenship:

• Your Father’s birth certificate from Italy
• Your Mother’s birth certificate
• Your Parents’ marriage certificate (yes, you only qualify if your parents were married when you were born) (I guess it’s an Italian-Catholic thing)
• Your Father’s certificate of naturalization (papers when he became a US citizen) or his Italian Passport and permanent resident card (“green card”).  Note that if your Father became a US citizen before you were born, then you don’t qualify for dual citizenship through your Father, but may through your Mother, Grandfather or Great-Grandfather)
• Your birth certificate
• A certified declaration that you and your Father  had not renounced his Italian citizenship as of the time you were born
• Two copies of your US passport
• Two copies of your driver’s license
• Two copies of a copy of a bill or bank statement with your name on it
• If applicable, your Father’s death certificate

Remember, this is a summary of what you need if you qualify for dual citizenship through your Father.  More details about each document will be given in a later blog.

Method Number 2

If your Mother was born in Italy, came to the country in which you were born, without renouncing her Italian citizenship as of when you were born, you were born after January 1, 1948, and your country recognizes dual Italian citizenship, then in Italy’s eyes, you are an Italian citizen (from your birth!), but you just need to prove it to them.

In this case, you’ll need the following proof:

• Your Mother’s birth certificate from Italy
• Your Father’s birth certificate
• Your Parents’ marriage certificate (they must have been married at the time of your birth)
• Your Mother’s certificate of naturalization (showing when she became a US citizen) or her Italian passport and a certificate of permanent residence (“green card”)
• Your birth certificate
• Certified letter that you and your Mother stating she did not renounce her Italian citizenship as of the time of your birth.  If your Mother became a US citizen before your birth, then you don’t qualify for dual citizenship through your Mother, but you still may through your Grandmother, Grandfather, or Great Grandfather.
• Two copies of your US passport
• Two copies of your driver’s license
• Two copies of a bill or bank statement
• Your Mother’s death certificate (if applicable)

Again, I’ll go into detail about each document in a future blog.  I’m just trying to lay a little groundwork at this point…

So What’s Up with Dual Italian Citizenship?

I’ve already written about some of the pros and cons of dual Italian citizenship, and have been promising more background of whether you qualify, and what you need to get your own.  So today we start that.

But before that I can say that today I received a notarized letter from my Father stating he has never renounced his Italian citizenship.  I still need to determine whether this form must be (tada!) apostilled by the Secretary of the State of Nevada (where he lives).  More about this once I determine it.

SO, now a bit of background…

Plainly put, Italy has a deal whereby if an ancestor of yours was an Italian citizen when your Mother or Father was born, and neither your ancestor nor your parent ever renounced their Italian citizenship, then in Italy’s eyes, you have been an Italian citizen since your birth!  OR — if your Father was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen when you were born, or Mother was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen when you were born, and you were born in 1948 or later, you qualify too.  The whole point of all this is that it’s just a matter of proving it to the Italian government.

Ok, this is the simplified version.  There are some gotchas, so now for some more detail:

Probably the most important requirement is that the country of which you’re a citizen, acknowledges dual citizenship with Italy.  In my case, I’m in the US and they do.

Here are the possible relationships which qualify you for dual Italian citizenship:

• Your father was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth.
• Your mother was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948.
• Your father was born in the United States, your paternal grandfather was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen at the time of your father’s birth.
• Your mother was born in the United States, your maternal grandfather was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen at the time of your mother’s birth, you were born after January 1, 1948.
• Your paternal or maternal grandfather was born in the United States, your paternal or maternal great grandfather was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen at the time of your paternal or maternal grandfather’s birth.

A couple things.  First, yes, it sounds sexist to me but I’m still only a US citizen.  They didn’t allow women to carry citizenship descendant rights until 1948.  So if your Mother was born in the US, and your Grandfather was born in Italy and was an Italian citizen at the time of your Mother’s birth, you only qualify for dual citizenship if you were born after 1948… just… because.  As the consulate states, “A person born before 01/01/1948 can claim Italian citizenship only from his/her father- (who was not a naturalized citizen of another country before his/her child’s birth –, and a woman can transfer citizenship only to her children born after 01/01/1948 if she was not a naturalized citizen of another country before her child’s birth.”

Also from the consulate, “‘Italian citizen at the time of the descendant’s birth’ means that he/she did not acquire any other citizenship through naturalization, before the descendant’s birth.”

So that’s pretty much it for qualifying for dual Italian citizenship.  When time permits, I’ll cover details of what documents you need, where to get them, and what stumbling blocks you may run across.

And remember, I am NOT an expert or official regarding this subject, nor should you follow information I give you (unless you have verified my information would work for you).  This entire Blog is only giving you information that I have learned, read, and that was relayed on to me from my Brother and/or Father, both of whom are now dual Italian citizens.